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In this episode of Sound Design Live, I talk with the the creative director at Void Acoustics, Rog Mogale. We discuss building an R&D lab in China, 200 mph motorcycles to Tibet, and gradient vs end-fire subwoofer arrays.

I ask:

• What are some of the biggest mistakes you see people making who are new to Void speakers?
• FB
  • Kyriakos Papadopoulos 
    • Where can we find the second part of his subwoofer arraying guide?
    • And what are his thoughts on gradient configurations?  I’d like to know his subwoofer system design approach regarding the use of gradient configuration. Reasons to use, trade offs like Impact and headroom reduction, band pass behavior. And if he has a preference on gradient or end fire or a mix of them!
  • Stuball Scramble How do the aesthetics of his cabinet designs affect the acoustic designs? Does an acoustic design goal come first on a given project, or an aesthetic one, and what compliments and conflicts arise?
  • Gui Wise can you make him talk about his SuperScooper Mogale 18″?? The Idea and history behind this for this design, his thoughts about it in quite briefly!
  • Nathan Short Ask him about running his racing motorcycles at 200+ mph on the unused superhighways in the edges of Tibet near China a long time ago.

If I can’t get everyone dancing, I’ll never mix again.

Rog Mogale

Notes

1. All music in this episode by Harper’s Jar.
2. A Practical Guide to Bass Arrays, Arcline: Design Considerations and Practical Implications, System Planning For Dance Venues
3. Speaker Plans
4. Quotes
   1. I’m the only person who’s hearing actually gets better every single year.
   2. You are doing the artist a disservice if you don’t understanding what they’re doing.
   3. Music can change people. It put’s you in a place where you are able to learn and change.
   4. If you don’t know why you’re doing this and who you’re serving, just get out. Don’t do it.
   5. If the audience isn’t that big, I like to toe the line arrays in to avoid using so much fill.
   6. I’d like to see more systems distributed. Nothing should ever face back towards the DJ.
   7. I’ve tried to unlearn everything I’ve known.
   8. I’m not a lover of end-fire.
   9. I’m a gradient lover. Give me lots of bins. If you haven’t got enough bins you can do a space. Just make sure you are in 1/4 wavelength center to center and the highest frequency is 80 or 90Hz.
   10. I consider myself as an artist that has a good founding in acoustics and physics.
   11. There’s a small mod for the Super Scooper that not many people know about. If you block off the two top left and right chambers, it works better.
   12. A well modded eminence scoop with double bracing is king.
   13. That thing can rip your life apart. It can change you.
   14. It should almost be a law that you shouldn’t work in this industry unless you can play a musical instrument and have some theory in music.
   15. If I can’t get everyone dancing on the dance floor and including in the toilets, and you can check, I’ll never mix again.

Transcript

This transcript was automatically generated. Please let me know if you discover any errors.

I’m Nathan Lively, and today I’m joined by the creative director at Void Acoustics, Rog Mogale. Rog, welcome to Sound Design Live.

Good morning, Nathan, and welcome to Rog and Nathan’s show about end fire vs. gradient arrays. And we’re only going to talk five hours.

Yes. So we’re going to talk for five hours about environ versus gradient.

But before we do that, Rog, tell me about some of your favorite, maybe one of your favorite test tracks, like after you get a sound system set up, what’s one of the first things you’ll want to listen to to to kind of get a sense of it that?

Well, that really depends, because what are you playing? Who you playing to? Are you doing demos to people? So which scenario are you referring to? Because I can think of about eight different things where I would set a system up to play to people. Sure.

Let’s let’s think of a scenario. So let’s say you’re doing a Medium-Sized Club install and this is just for you. You’re there alone, right?

OK, yeah. I would play, obviously the style and genre that the club is going to play. You know, if it’s an all out dance club or techno club, then I play something that’s obviously going to reflect what will be played and nothing too good. You know, I quite like some of those kind of tracks were really screaming the vocal kind of leads and, you know, you wouldn’t normally play, but it’s what’s going to be played.

So you have to allow for that and set up accordingly. It’s very, very different. If I’m doing if I’ve just set the system up and the nightclub owner and all the staff turn up for the first time, then, yeah, I’m pulling out nice recordings and yeah, hopefully getting them all in tears, which I’ve done a couple of times. That’s good business.

Yeah. So that’s interesting. So do you do a little bit of part of your research as to kind of find out what music they’ll be playing, they’re what they’re expecting to hear. And that way when you do that first demo, you have something that that you know that they’re familiar with. Yeah, of course. Yeah.

With everything in life, you do your homework, you never, ever get caught off guard. So I need to know who who’s going in now, you know, what kind of night support and what kind of styles and. Yeah, yeah, I’ll do my homework and that’s the way you go forward with it. Is that a curiosity?

Do you ever notice do you notice any trends in the music? Like is there one artist or one track that, you know, everyone is going to be happy with or.

No, it was always going to come up when you ask people what they’re playing difficult and in a club world? Not really. I mean, I see it on forums commented that the rude sandstorm is often one that’s kind of people you know, you put up a post and go, what what would be the first track you play on that? And you often get that. It’s a fairly typical. I’ve never played it, to be honest. OK, yeah, so that’s the thing, no go, that’s actually really cool to hear that, you know, people’s tastes are fairly eclectic or like changing often enough that there’s not one thing you just always play.

Yeah, it’s not like in a demo for a live system where, you know, certain tracks and Hotel California and all the other boring stuff is going to be expected, which I won’t do, you know, come on, show me how great if you are by just playing the same track as everyone else.

OK, so yeah, I know that everyone’s a reference and we all want to hear something we think we know. But now there’s there’s other options.

So how did you get your first job in audio. Like what was one of your first paying gigs.

So do you want the short answer here, which is kind of like two minutes, or do you want the life history until that point?

I don’t want the whole life history. I’m sort of curious, like that moment when you were young or whenever it happened and audio was interesting. But then also you got money for it. Like, I feel like that’s that’s a special time. Like the first time you actually pay money for your first record, you know, that’s like you’re really taking agency of a thing.

So, yeah. So I’m kind of interested in that that moment in your life, what happened there and how did it turn into a job for the first time? I’m not sure I’ve even been ever paid for anything yet.

It’s OK, know, I mean, obviously it was always in me music.

I mean, it’s not something you choose. I’m against people that, you know, choose to being something it chooses you. It’s. Yeah, you just got to be there for it. And if you’re open enough and it will come and it will find you and it will use you and it will give you a good time and all the tools you need to do it.

So yeah. So first got into a very young age.

I didn’t hear very well as a kid at school. I was the kid at the front of the class with the big headphones and the things swung around my neck. So really I kind of always wanted to make everything louder, I suppose.

Sure, sure. Glorified from that.

Really. So yeah, hearing got better after about 10 or 11 and I kind of could start to speak a bit then as well, which was handy.

And actually my hearing gets better every year. I have it tested every year and I’m the only person that’s hearing actually gets better every single year my age. There should be nothing over like ten K and there’s just loads.

So you’re going to live forever.

Yeah, well my is well it’s just been like a purple kind of cushion in a class somewhere. So yeah. The first time I really kind of did it for real I suppose was I did like being at school in the late seventies just before I left school. And then in the last year of that I was doing a bit of sound as well. The guy who did send a sixth form a left. So I was doing the kind of sound and the lighting for the stage in the school.

I was and it wasn’t wasn’t a very big place.

And yeah, it just kind of felt right. Making noise felt better than kind of illuminating things anyway, you know, it just felt good. So I left school and I got a job on a building site doing civil engineering and I started going to university for to learn civil engineering did that for two years.

And yeah, I really just knew that wasn’t wasn’t my path. It was just, you know, you get that got is systemic out there. And if there is and I don’t do it or find it, I’m I don’t regret this. And I got to that point. And when I get to that point, I just walk away. So I just walked away from it and I didn’t look back. It wasn’t what I’m used for.

So so. Yeah, but in the evenings and weekends, I was kind of doing a few kind of discos. A friend of mine had like a really bad disco and I thought, yeah, I’m going to build some speakers. And just because I wanted to and I could and I just thought, yeah, be a cool thing to do. So I think it was some of the ones from the early feygin catalog, maybe the 115, you know, W bin and the Y Ben and things like this.

And although actually even even in the early 80s, in my last year at school, I was in woodwork building speakers as well at that early. Yeah, I really wanted to I mean, two years old, my mother got pictures of me, you know, with like cardboard boxes of first drawn on them.

OK, it’s a string. It is even like free Amazon amplifiers. It’s getting that technical even like two, three years old.

So. Any evenings was doing this disco with my friend and yeah, it just was good, and then some kind of bands, friends of mine said, wow, yeah, yeah, yeah, we’ve got a gig coming up, like a pub or small club. Would you like to do the sound? And I’m like, Yeah, why not? So I started doing that. I got a small mixer, 12 channel mix and multicore some mix and stands and yeah that’s that was I supposed.

Yes, that was mid mid eighties and that was the first paid thing I did really. The discos and the live work with, with the system I built.

Sure. So that was your first, like sort of commercial opportunity. I’ll make speakers for my friend who’s building this disco or this manager.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Actually I would it wasn’t his I supplied it to him. It, it was.

Yeah I you had a rental company from 1985 onwards. It was called Sound Facilities and.

Yeah. So that’s just it kind of took off a bit and after about two or three years stop doing the discos. Just, just didn’t, just wasn’t really into I was really kind of into the live things and doing a small few festival stages outside and doing lots of kind of Pumbaa work and no nightclubs at this time. And yeah, it just took off.

And then I did a couple of bands that were kind of break in at the time and that was useful because, you know, a lot of, you know, and a lot of music industry people would turn up at concerts and gigs.

And you’re using your systems. Yes. Yeah. By then I actually designed my, my, my. The first time frame for city system there is blue with yellow writing. There’s some pictures of I can send you pictures of speech on the web.

Sure. Yeah. I kind of started to I suppose, get noticed.

Yes. Guys not doing too bad and mix. So a couple of companies in Bristol and which actually remember the name of it all. My memory is really bad. Said Would you like to come and do a bit of freelance mixing, you know, for some bigger shows than that? And I said, yeah, I’d kind of love to. So I went over and kind of took took a while, you know, some days and afternoons to learn the desks and all the board and stuff like that, because it was quite, quite a step up from what I was using.

And yeah. Really got into it and went and did did loads and loads of shows then then then did some work in London. This must have been from about eighty seven, eighty, eighty nine around that time I was in London and yeah it just took off then I was just getting work from, you know, loads of big bands and loads of big artists and then went over to the States and did some bits in the early nineties.

Yeah. I’ve just been really lucky. I’ve worked with many, many people in the industry, but I’ve worked with people that I really respected.

I’ve never you know, you do people are this justice if you don’t like or don’t understand what they’re about. I have one of the biggest, biggest artist in 87. His management rang me up. He was American guy.

I can’t say I work. I say.

But he, you know, top two, three performers ever that that big it wasn’t Michael Jackson, but it was under that, but not it was close in scale of things. And he he just rings up. It was all telephones in those days, no mobiles. And my ceramic thing with the van Dila. I’ve heard of it. Yeah. Yeah. Picked out. You picked it up and he’s.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We’ve had some of your work and you come highly recommended. We’ve got a UK tour and starting off at Wembley or somewhere and would you, would you like to do the house for this. And I said well to be honest I just don’t really like the artist. I called him by now. I know. I just don’t really like him. I just don’t I just don’t do it. And sorry, put the phone down.

But because, you know, he deserved and everyone deserves to have the best they can.

And, you know, it really needed someone that wanted that gig so badly that would have died for it. And just then the ultimate mix and it would have just been work for me. And sure, it’s not enough.

It’s a disservice to the artist. So so I’ve turned down lots of work where I could have done it would have been an easy gig. But it’s I’m not connecting with I’m not doing them justice. So, yeah, I work that well and everything.

No, it’s great that he’s there. I mean, we like to sometimes get a little arrogant and think that we’re the best at everything and really we’re only the, you know, good at a small number of things. And we should really focus on those things. And those include, you know, working on the music that we really love. We’re not going to be the best at working on music that we don’t care for.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I see a lot of it and especially recently creep in the industry. And it’s where, you know, people have really forgotten why we do stand and why we do lifesize and. We do clubs or whatever, and we do it for people’s enjoyment and we do it to make a difference. I say the music can change people. You don’t listen to an album become a different person. You don’t go to a concert and become a different person.

But what it does do is it puts you in a place where you’re able to learn and change. So it indirectly does change you. And I’m all for that. I’m just here to use what I’ve been given to give people a good time and just turn them on and make it as best enjoyable experience as I can. And, you know, that’s the reason people work as medics or paramedics or doctors or firemen. You know, they’re there for the people.

But occasionally in the industry, you just see people who are doing it for them. They’re walking around. They’re kind of it’s all ego. And it’s just like just just get out right now and just stop doing that. It’s just not right. If you don’t know why you’re doing this and who wear here and who we are serving, just don’t get why it’s such a big injustice. So I see that creeping in a bit where it’s know this superstar MCS, engineers and things, you know, and it’s like, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, don’t go that way.

So speaking of who you’re serving, why do you think you ended up here talking to me today and working as a civil engineer? Is it just because you hated it so much that you were kind of looking for anything else?

Or was there a moment where you were like, OK, I need to make a decision for whether or not I’m going to be happy for the rest of my life or whatever? Can you think of how did that how did that turn out? When was that moment? Yeah, that yeah.

And it was well it was it was the, you know, being two years in the unit doing the civil engineering kind of degree and being out on the building sites. It was the second winter that hit me hard. It really did.

And it never felt right. It just didn’t feel like the thing. It was the thing kind of I wanted to do, but it wasn’t the thing I should have been done and it really was.

And so, yeah, after two years, I’d just had enough. And I was like I say, in the evenings doing systems and doing a few live events and discos and things, and that made more difference.

I could really see what how that could affect people and the difference and the change that could bring. So it was just one day a lesson, as I said that before I came to that regrette point, you know, if I on going to regret so I might. Bristo accent comes out every now and again.

It took me years to try and hide it, but it just does come out occasionally. Yeah. SAT in the classroom and. Yeah. Am I going to regret not just sitting here for the rest of my life and just been on building sites and you know, I mean where there’s this other side that I can do and I just so want to do it, but I don’t really know how. But so I just walked out, I walked halfway through the lesson and I just quit my job and I said, I just have to have to make this, you know, I have to make something out of audio and I have to make a name and I have to give with it and change things.

So that that’s that was the point. The real point. It was just really walking out of a lecture and just just no more of this. No, it’s not. I suppose I was lucky. I had a feeling it wasn’t right. You know, you are told the way to go if you’re open and receptive. And it just took, you know, for me to get that out of my life, which would probably 18 or 19 to actually say no more.

No, this is not right. I’ve got to do something else. So I did. And yeah, I’m lucky I did. It’s been brilliant, however.

Right. So I want to know, what are some of the biggest or most common mistakes you see people making who are new to avoid speakers, and I’m really just using the word void because, you know, that’s what you’re associated with now. But you’ve been working on systems and helping people with systems for a long time. And so you get a lot of support calls. You’re helping people with their designs. You’re going to see their installations and saying, oh, you did this, this and this.

And this could be a better way to do that. So I’m I’m just curious if there are any trends that you’ve seen over your years of working on systems that you that people just consistently do or like the kind of questions that you that you get all the time?

OK, so I can split that into, obviously, because we do talking products as well into touring and into life. Obviously, you have to have to be careful here not to upset everyone or that everyone.

I don’t care, to be honest. It’s it’s a really, really good crew of people that use our products. We’re not as careful as some some other companies that really vet who uses their product and literally tells them what time to get up and what toilet roll to use. We just don’t sit on people that that much because, you know, if you haven’t got that much trust or someone don’t use them, you know, there’s got to be able to get out there and just do a good job.

And luckily, you know, we have that. So I don’t really see many mistakes. And if there are that be pulled up by other people, we have two or three forums for power users. And, you know, people put up what they’ve been working on and people just, you know, come up with suggestions and things like one thing life wise I see often done and I can’t say it’s wrong, but I would do it differently is OK.

So if you’ve got a very, very wide audience outside festival, this isn’t really practical.

But if the audience isn’t that big, I quite like to toe the line or raising quite a bit to avoid using so much fail. I see people use hell of a lot of fill on top of the front from base tax, you know, side Phil’s pointing at the audience. It’s just too too many sources from, you know, arriving at different times for me. I like to keep things really simple.

If you can just do two hangs, a one in the middle, you know, and then if that means you’ve got to have a bit of extra help and, you know, then do that. So that’s that’s one thing that that a lot of people kind of like I say, you don’t get it wrong because if you’ve got a really wide audience, then I understand you’ve got to hang flat going outwards to cover it also with clubs.

Yeah, this is quite a controversial one. I mean, I massively trust the people who who who do are clubs and write them off and help set them up. Know from Germany, Nathan Shaw and the US and many others around the world, tokie Japan. So, you know, I really trust them. And I’m in such a lucky position because I don’t need to go out anymore and write clubs off or check things or set things up. You know, they have as good an air as I do and that’s probably better in some cases.

So yeah, I can totally trust them. I’d like to see more systems done distributed. I, I’m not a lover of four stacks when when you have especially mid tops, nothing should ever, ever face back to the dB. It’s the same as doing an outside festival, getting all the delay stacks and turn them towards the stage. You would not do that, but it’s done in clubs and yeah, I hate it.

I really do. I like running mid tops.

You find the zero point, you know, the front of the stage and you run everything, you delay everything back, you calculate it first and then you find tune by just just for the feeling really. And I find it really it gives the deejay a lot easier job and it really kind of brings everyone closer to the front and it brings everyone the same experience because they’re all kind of here and the same thing from from the same point.

So it’s interesting. You have a point of focus and some sort of a sonic image instead of it just coming from all around you.

Yes. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I know that’s done.

And there are some very famous ones that people have done quite recently, but they were very long flops. So the real rare delays and if they’re told in enough, you know, they’re probably not going to be heard at the front of of, you know, at the front of the club. But other than that, if it’s a square club, I just wanted to I really just advise everyone to go stupid and all the clubs. I’ve actually done myself like shock.

Thirty nine in Bangkok. We’ve done distributed systems. And to me it just makes the whole place just party about. More and a bit more united, it just really brings everyone together, I guess, tell me what you mean by that, because to me, just distributed just means more speakers. But in this case, we were talking about how they’re aimed. And so you’re using more speakers to to fill the space. But instead of them being around the room kind of pointed in towards some center point, they’re still all using the stage or the dB as their sonic image and then pointed away from that.

Yeah, totally.

This is exactly the same as you do in a live concert with Stacks. It’s just that you’re doing this in a room and you’re just delaying as you as you go back. Normally, you wouldn’t need to do this if you can get a big enough array along the, you know, under or in or around the deejay console, then, you know, the set will go all the way. So you really just fill in the middle top as it goes back.

That’s that’s what you’re doing.

But, yeah, I don’t know why people more people don’t do it, because it’s really just. Yeah, I really like being in clubs.

It gives a focal point, you know, if not if you’ve got kind of sand behind you into the side of you, you’re a bit where’s it coming from?

You know, so well, you’ve done all these great projects, have these beautiful speakers. And I thought maybe to sort of give a more well rounded story about you in the short time that we have together, you could talk about maybe one of the biggest and most painful mistakes that you’ve made on the job and how you recovered. Oh, yeah.

I don’t I don’t personally tend to make many mistakes. I know. That’s like, wow. But, you know, I go and prepared and I do my homework on everything because the performer, the deejay, the artist who is the band, whoever’s going to be on that stage, you know, it’s their moment and they’ve put everything into it. So I’m not going to leave anything unturned. So I’m going to do everything in my power to make my bet right.

And I don’t want to lose face. So normally not many problems. One big problem I had that was out of my control and this didn’t go well was I was doing a culture clash in London, I think must have been about twenty thousand people. Twenty two thousand people. We had Floyd Klein twelve, which is we no longer make that product has been superseded by our Klein and we did the Sanjak. And I thought this is probably a bit underpowered.

We had probably fourteen or sixteen aside and an additional hangs from the balconies. And I thought it’s probably a bit underpowered, but we’re quite aware of it. It’s enough, it’ll be OK. And we are below to perform all the same checks. You know, had nine vocal mikes, Ramses on the opening act. So this is quite a difficult, you know, shape to mix anyway. So what I find out later is that the amps for the mid tops haven’t been linked there, only one on one channel.

So you’ve got the top cap, then the second, the third one down, then the fifth one down. Every other cap wasn’t wasn’t working.

And then someone because I wouldn’t normally go and check that. You just normally assume that that’s been done and that’s that’s how it is.

So the system came on and it must have been about plus twenty five dB from about 250 hertz up and everything, just fed back at like one hundred fifty two hundred.

And when does that happen at me during the show it came back on. Well no this was the first number because I was now you know, I’d done all the RTA and done everything on the system with half the work. And I now had a full system, all the cabs working the first that comes on. And that’s just it’s just I haven’t just mixed up the whole thing in seconds with nine emcees and another. Yeah.

So, yeah, that was and it was televised.

Yes. I was just looking at me and go and what the hell’s going on.

And I’m like I’m just dying. I really. Well how did you come back. What. You just remix it. You just grabbed some controls and sucked, you know, put some bypasses on you just get on with it. And luckily after the first number, it was it was almost back to where it was. But again, that was out of my control. So it’s but that was a difficult one. Yeah. Yeah.

Some of my competitors were stood next to me as well because they had some of the bands to me. I really lost face that day.

What was there was another bit to it as well.

But we know that was pretty much it kind of how you recovered. Like I’m also curious, like what happened afterwards. Like did you.

Did you. Obviously, you didn’t lose all your work and never worked again like you had conversations and there were probably producers or even promoters who are like, what happened? And then what did you say to them?

Well, they just had the technical and yeah, it just went wrong. And I’m really sorry, you know, and. Yeah, yeah. But as you can tell, you know, from from four or five minutes in, everything was fine. So it was just, just, you know, and the show went really well. Everyone loved it. And I got back to the next one.

OK. So it was.

Yeah it was. Yeah. But there’s a few. Yeah. YouTube videos of it and you can see how bad it is.

All right. Well I have a handful of questions here that were sent in from Facebook and some of them are pretty broad in general. So we can kind of see how well we can do with them. So. So we’ll give it a shot. So Kyriakos knows that I never pronounce his name right. Sorry about that. Where can we find the second part of his subwoofer, Irangate more?

Well, as you probably read or probably this morning before you got up, you didn’t have much time, Nathan. I did. The first base array, the practical guide to base raising phase in an eight. And at the time, there really wasn’t anything kind of like it. There was nothing that showed you, you know, how the response is going to look.

So, you know, also, we we had some big shows coming up as well, which is why the the the area the I think it’s 50 meters by 25 or something or 30 meters is actually the area of the concert hall we had booked. So I just did lots of simulations just to see what was actually going to work the best at some concerts that I knew we had coming up. And so but then I just for a while I’ll just share this, because there’s nothing there’s nothing like this.

There’s nothing out there. So it was early.

Some of the some of the bits got taken up quite seriously.

The Martin Audio MLA system from 2009 onwards for about five or six years, used the Delta, Delta Arae, the I, the I outlined in The Practical Guide and the Tuesday at Glastonbury every year.

And it worked well.

It did work well.

It’s it’s so I’m I’m a fan of more gradient. Definitely. I know that’s a question for sure.

Yes, that’s cool. And and I that was definitely one of my texts that I read it a long time ago when I didn’t understand any of it. But I do remember the Delta and I was like, oh, this is interesting. So for people who don’t know and haven’t read the guide from thousand eight, would you mind just describing the Delta array and and and what you feel like it’s practiced best practical purposes.

OK, so it’s quite a lot like what you would call now like inverted CSA. So it’s to Cabinet’s forward. So how you’re doing and you stand him up, right.

You do, you do two forward, one back to forward one back. And the rare one obviously is fais adjusted and has a delay. So it’s very much like but with the Delta Arae you actually physically move the bass, been the rearward facing bass cabinet, you actually physically move it.

So this is different than an inverted gradient stack that people might be familiar with.

Actually, what you’re doing is you’re creating a bigger surface area and so you’ve got a bit more directionality. That’s actually what it’s doing.

So, yeah, but it kind of if you’ve got a long enough array, it kind of works just having it flat. There is not much point and staggering.

You know, the redwood facing. What does it do.

It just puts more at the front and gets rid of any lobes. If you if you’re doing a left and right stack, obviously you can have a massive power power rally in the middle, which, you know, 500 people really got off on and everyone else is kind of where’s the bass? So it gets rid of that on stage.

Levels are going to be a lot quieter, you know, so for low end. So, yeah, it’s why not. And also it couples cabinet actually makes more use of what you have. You haven’t got things fighting each other or you know, everything is working as one. So you’ve got a game now which is always worth having. But to the original question, where is part two? Part two never really happened because it was going to be about horns and things like that.

And then I looked into it and it’s just so complex, you know, like, you know, to MAPP horns. It’s so easy. To just have a reflex, it’s so predictable, it’s you know, you can get the fun of it, you just know what’s what it’s going to do. But homes are just really quite unpredictable. And especially in multiples, things start changing with larger homes. And so it’s very, very difficult to predict.

And I really kind of gave up.

But what did happen is part two came out well, it wasn’t part two. It was a kind of side kick off from it. In 2010, I wrote System Tips for dance venues, which I think is also on the Net and the PDF that went into more elaborate, more elaborate Khalaji and false tax systems to stack either side of the dance floor circular with a circular D.J.. So of all the subs facing outwards, which actually proved to be the best.

So yeah, that that was it.

But it didn’t go into homes, but it did elaborate on on the joy of part one. So part two is. Yeah, the system tips for dance venues.

Cool. So Quercus also wants you to talk about gradient configurations. And I tried to get him to be a little bit more specific about exactly what he wants to know. And I said, well, what do you want to know about it and what specific questions? And he said, I’d like to know his suboffices design approach regarding the use of Khadir configuration reasons to use trade offs like impact and head room reduction, bad past behavior, and if he has a preference on gradient, in fire or a mix of them.

So we don’t really have time to do like a whole like three hour course and answering all these questions, which I’m sure you have a lot of insight into. So how can we how can we talk about this question? What do you think Cariocas wants to know from you about gradient arrays?

I really have to start off by saying that really you’re talking to the wrong guy about it, because I’ve over the years, I’ve I’ve become more like a kind of jazz musician where I’ve kind of tried to unlearn everything I’ve known because there’s so constrictive. And, you know, they set you in a very, very defined way. And I’ve kind of tried to go more free form because all my work has become design as the companies become bigger. We have, you know, support staff and we have staff to do, you know, help with installs, layouts and festival system planning.

We have this. So I don’t really get to do that anymore. So I used to, but that was probably 10 years ago, so that I’ve not really been in the field. And yeah, I go to concerts, I mix things, but I don’t really plan the systems and I certainly don’t sit there for weeks on end just just running simulations anymore. If I’ve got the time to do that, I should be designing because you can get a lot of people to say a computer and do predictions, you know, but you can get very, very few people to do what I do.

And so that’s another thing I’ve realised my time is valuable and you just capitalize on what you’re good at. You just don’t sit there running simulations or analysis, because are the people that can do that actually quite like it? I don’t particularly like it. I really like designing stuff. And so that’s that’s where I’m at. I’m not a lover of fire. It’s I.

Space, I don’t know, we don’t get to do, you know, massive, massive stadiums and so we don’t you know, we can be doing three or four stages at Notting Hill Carnival, which has two million people over the weekend. But because there’s so many systems, it’s quite small and there’s just not room for fire.

There really just isn’t not enough real estate. No, no. I’ve looked into it and I’ve looked at people have had problems of blobbing and it doesn’t look the cleanest kind of at the front. And I’m really just a lover of just, you know, bins as wide as the audience everyone’s in. You know, if you need it a bit wider, you can start to put delays on the ends. Yep. Reverse, you know, in a gradient fashion or a CSA and invert so that you you get, you know, on stage noise levels.

And that works for me. That really, really works. And I don’t really think you can take that any further. Some of the void rental partners have been doing, like what they call Delta arrays now, which are kind of big, huge Vee’s. And to me, it doesn’t really matter because you can really make the frequencies for so long. You know, you can make any MAPP of cabinets in any kind of shape, some somewhere and go that direction.

So but I just yeah, I’m a great lover and just give me lots of beans. And if you haven’t got enough then you can space. You can you can, you can do a space. Just just make sure you know you’re on quarter wavelengths into the center and yeah. The highest frequency you say your 90 hertz and yeah. That, that for me works. Yeah.

I want to move on but I feel like for people there are probably people who are listening who may have not heard this rule before of the limit of spacing quarter wavelength. So could you just explain that a little bit? What is the highest frequency operating range I should be looking at to calculate this? And then how do I do that?

OK, I mean, ideally and this this also applies for when you’re designing a line or a cabinet, you’re trying for obviously a center to center spacing of quarter wavelength.

But that, especially with H.F., is just very, very difficult to get.

And I’m some mid-range as well. So, you know, a half a half wavelength is in my ear, still sounds OK. And actually lower frequencies of wavelengths are still OK. I don’t mind a wavelength if push comes to shove. I you know, so you’re talking quite a distance then from if you take 100000 below one hundred and ten below, you know, you can you don’t you need to you fill everything up along the whole front. So yeah.

I’m not too much of a stickler on this quarter wavelength. It’s, it helps but it’s, it’s impractical.

OK, so you’re saying people should do whatever they need to to get the line length that they need for the coverage that they need. Yes.

Yeah, well, like going over one wavelength spacing and that’s not edge to edge. That is actually drive a center of drive at the center of drive. But ACTC, that’s not as your cabinet build this thing. I put the cabinets two minutes apart. But no, that’s so it’s a bit closer than we think, but well, depending on cabinet, if it’s a home then you assume, you know, and the full frontal, you know, area is the radiation area of the home that you can assume that it is to the edge, OK?

So there was a time in my life when I was living in Portugal and I was working at the National Theatre and my predecessor or a guy, a colleague who used to work for the National Theatre before I got there, eventually left and became a distributor for void acoustics in Portugal in the Lisbon area. And that was my first introduction to them. So he really liked them. And I think he he told us about them when he came by the theater one day to help us, like, install some new antenna cables or something like that.

And he may have given us some marketing materials, but I remember the first time seeing those and it really dawned on me that my entire life I sort of understood that people wish that speakers could be invisible and that’s why they’re sort of black.

And then they ended up they end up getting put into all sort of weird places because people don’t want to see them, at least in terms of most things that aren’t just concert, whereas just focused on the audio, but you still have to see the performers. So so it was it was eye opening for me to see this brand where they seem to go the opposite direction and they seem to say, hey, we’re not going to make our speakers invisible, we’re going to do the opposite.

We’re going to make them visible. They’re going to be so beautiful that you’re going to want to see them and you’re going to want to put them where everyone can see them. Now, they’re like part of the show. And I’m just saying all this story as a preamble to stubbles question, which is how do the aesthetics of his cabinet designs affect the acoustic designs? Does an acoustic design goal come first on a given project or an aesthetic one? And what components in conflicts arise?

OK, so, yeah, you’ve just highlighted why, you know, I went with things that weren’t just black boxes because it was quite evident in the late 90s when I first set up the successor to Void Acoustics, which we called big mouth speaker systems. And I was lucky to get some some work in the Caribbean, in Antigua and also around around England as well. And that was sort of a series called Static. It was all kind of wooden and it was bare wood and very, very difficult to make.

So, yeah, it just became really apparent the even lighting in clubs were looking kind of nice and artistic and kind of had some kind of sculpture. But then clubs were just spending millions on décor and it was just plush and it was looking really, really good. And then there was just really horrible black. Conover’s always in the corner, like trying to be hidden because it didn’t look good or it didn’t couldn’t make a statement. It should just be hidden.

So I thought, well, yeah, this just make something that looks nice and beautiful. And so, I mean, I don’t consider myself as a speaker designer. I consider myself as an artist who just as a really good finding in acoustics and physics, I’m you know, I come at it that way. We have far more to do with, like, how a top car manufacturer, you know, comes up with molds and, you know, for cars and things like that than we do traditional speaker companies.

You know, it’s so easy to get to the question.

There’s there’s two ways to do this. There’s either I come up with something just wacky, like in my head, and I have to then make it make a sound. Or the second way is I get a brief and.

There’s a second part to the brief MAPP, and that is the you want something to work so correctly that there is only one form it can actually take to do that. So that was Incubus. That was there was no brief. The brief was make everything couple, you know, and make everything completely.

One in that cabinet and that made top section make the twelve’s the French compression drive is the one or just some or become one or be within half wavelength and just, you know, and then have a bit of control over that with power shading and things like that. So that the form of that came because that to me was physically the only way all those transducers and horns could actually be mounted and set to accomplish that.

So that so Incubus wasn’t oh, let me come up with something that looks really, really groovy and then just try and make a sign that that was more like our motion. Our motion was just let me make something really, really nice. And now I’ve got to kind of worry about getting a good sound from it. But because it is or comical, Holmes is quite an easy thing to achieve. Try motion was another one that was. Yeah. You know, I just want to make a speaker that looks like that.

So so you draw it first, then you start running the simulations and then adjust things. And so but try emotion was difficult that, that, that.

Yeah. To get it to get a good sound out of that was very, very difficult. That’s, that’s not an easy thing to do. But actually it turned out because the, the horns were triangle the had a symmetrical vertical dispersion. So there’s less actually going at the top from the bottom. So you get less in shlubs, you get less cieling reflexion. So actually it kind of I didn’t actually even think about that at the time, but that was like a side effect.

That’s very useful. So, yeah, two ways. You know, the other thing is I get a brief and it’s OK. The Cabinet has to be this weight this size because it has to go in a truck. It has to have this I put this frequency response and things like that. And so then you really are. Yeah. You’re working to a spec. You’re working to a brief. A brief. And I can do that. I don’t mind doing that, but I do just like making weird shapes, make a good sound that there’s something about that.

But it’s not. I mean you could literally give me a piece of glass and it can make it can make a sound. I can make anything make a sound.

It’s not the problem.

Guillaume’s says. Can you make him talk about his super scooper Mogale 18 inch? And I said, what do you want him to say about it? And he said, the idea in history behind it.

And I said, OK, well, that’s going back to my old DIY days.

OK, when is that from?

So that was this was one of the earlier models that you that you designed and built. Yeah. Yeah. Are you aware of my speaker plans history. Oh, my God. Oh, you haven’t learned to speak of plans, just like the greatest forum in the whole universe. Oh, OK.

Well, no, it’s a DIY community and I started it in 2003, I think.

OK, so just just after I started avoid acoustics, which are.

Yeah, that’s a conflict of interest. But on one hand you come of trying to sell speakers for quite a bit of money and say that the best say this is proprietary information.

Yeah, yeah.

But I mean, a lot of that was the thing, you know, I helped and I still help out. You know, if people ask me questions, I’m now for it. I’m not like most designers that just hide it. Everything to them is a secret because, you know, you’re arming other people. And I really don’t kind of mind. It’s we you know, we’re all in this together.

So speak of plans. Yeah. Like I say, it’s the best kind of forum ever. So 2003 that started and yeah. That was yeah.

It was good.

And it still is good really, because it has people who come on and you know, you’re really encouraged to come up with your own designs and use base box pro or when, when, when ESD or nonresponse, things like that and just come up with your own thing.

You know, we really, really against copying and people coming on and kind of what and plans the things it’s like now just work out for yourself, for yourself. So I’m glad the forum is kept that and still is still keeps going that way. So yeah, I will talk about the super scoop. I’m not avoiding it.

So I started the forum because it really is a UK kind of answer to the US stuff that was going on. And that was pro sound news, was it. I think the forum there or live. Yeah.

Somewhere might have even been called Pro and live. Back then there was another one. There was the high efficiency speaker forum and it was just people like me and Bill.

What is this, the one that I like? I had Bill for Fritz IEMs. I don’t know.

I’m sorry, but crap memory. I remember Tom Dowling was on it as well, and there were a few when Barnham and there was, you know, Freddy and Jake, there was quite a few of us. And yeah, we kind of really started that whole DIY movement. This was this was 98, 99. We were on these forums. You know, a lot of it was on kind of old tripod kind of forum sites and just really, really Windows 95.

I think my machine was Batman, but it kind of worked.

And we started talking and yeah, we it was brilliant.

So I really wanted to they were all us sites and I really wanted to kind of the same thing, but but more kind of UK based and more European based. So that’s why I started Speaker plans and then it just.

I actually the more famous one with the 1850 hon, and I’m sure I did that before I started with acoustics, and I think Super Scooper is while the super scooper came out before voit acoustics as well. So they would have been about to phase in 2001. Yeah, I just wanted to do some designs that people could use for like free parties and just just for fun, really, and make a bit of a difference.

It was nothing really too serious. Yeah. I just that’s why I did it. It’s yeah.

It’s kind of in a way come back to bite me because yeah, I am in direct conflict, you know, it’s a conflict of interest trying to sell speakers and also having plans out there that stop people from buying.

But but to be honest, the people that are going to DIY built by and build are never going to buy. So you’ve not really lost a customer. And I think what I have done is I do get quite a bit of respect by people saying, wow, you know, you’re one of the only designers that will actually talk to people and actually will help and come back with a reply. And I think, you know, that that puts me in a bit of a stand on other people, really, because I do that to be a super scooper was just for dub and reggae.

Sound systems are used 1850 Mach one driver. And yeah, you need quite a few of them because it was it was a hyperbolic flare. So you need quite a few to build up quite a bit MAPP really. And yeah.

Well then we released a driver void release, a driver called the VAT 1000, which actually worked really, really well in it. And I had designed the super scoop before the driver came out. So I didn’t that was a pure fluke that we came out of a driver that just seemed to be the one that worked the best.

Eneko But but yeah. So there’s a mod. There’s a small mod you can do that not many people know about or anyone, and that is with some drivers. And you’re going to have to send this because, you know, I’m out of the loop with DIY, to be honest, bezoar 20 years ago now. So I don’t really know that there’s people that are still doing DIY every day and they’re in a much better position to advise what’s good people come to you and go, what’s the best DIY thing?

I might just go to a forum because you know that they really are aware of what’s happening and right at the forefront of it all.

And I’m not because I’m concentrating on the commercial side. So I forgot what I was going with that one.

But now the mind is completely different from other modes.

Yeah, the mods and the rockers and everything else.

So yeah, the front chamber is a bit too big. It’s a bit too big.

If you can put two bits of angled woods would at the if you can from the front the cabinet, you take the driver at the top, you need to block off in the rear chamber behind the driver. If you block off the two top left and right chambers, then it actually it works better with certain drivers to have a lot smaller front chamber. So, yeah, that one about a year after I designed it, but I never kind of put the mods, but I think a few people had worked it out well.

But yeah, it’s OK.

I really wanted something there. And also it was kind of slightly ego kind of thing as well. It’s nice to have a Ben that you’ve designed, you know, a lot of, you know, DIY and design sound systems and sound systems are, you know, around the world. And it’s just nice. The well one that they’re doing and given so much with the performance isn’t to just on an egotistical side. It’s just really nice to be part of that.

And, you know, if they’re going to build some, I just don’t think some crap, really. So I just just decided to put something out there, just kind of stop at least some real rubbish being built. But I really did want to compete with the Éminence design. There’s a single eighteen éminence, and if you do a few monsta that by putting in corner deflectors, it actually, I have to say still is better than the super scooper, the super super probably slightly under it, but yeah, a well molded eminent scoop of double racing is is can go on.

I don’t love that Gloria. I wanted to but I don’t.

OK, so Nathan Short says ask him about running his racing motorcycles at two hundred plus miles per hour and the new superhighways and the edges of Tibet near China a long time ago. Apparently, you ride motorcycles and you took one out to some superhighways.

And what’s the story here about such a Nathan thing, isn’t it, to kind of glorify that?

Not just brilliant. Yeah, yeah. Actually, I was just going to a shop on a fifty sixty moped, you know, get a packet of facts and turn grandma spooky superhighways, you know, so.

Yes, I think it’s quite well known that I really, really love and dB motorcycles, I have a car, but it really is just to get to the shops when I can’t carry some kind of backpack. It’s yeah, I’ve only got four motorcycles at the moment. Certainly as quite, quite bad. Yeah. One of them’s a beast. It’s twelve ninety. Well three hundred and one skateboard v twin that weighs under 200 kilos. So that’s, that’s the same power to say how excited I am.

Not because that’s the same power to weight is like two Ferraris or two.

That’s nine hundred and six. What are you doing with that thing. A lot need.

Yeah. It’s got traction control. Speed is done. Yep. Just going for rides. I just love it. It’s just that thing can just rip your life apart. Yeah. I can change you. It’s good. So I love bikes. Yeah. The other thing you probably don’t know is that I moved from the UK to mainland China in 2002. Just after it opened, I started doing the R&D in England and I just could see this was just going nowhere because, you know, you go and see people.

Can you can you make this work? Can you make this better word? And you just get that kind of beard scratching. You don’t know what’s going to cost. Like, well, to know if I can fit under. And it just it was just so bloody hard work and everyone was just giving me such a hard time.

And I really like to work quick and just just just jump on it and just get something out quick because you’re in the moment. Same with writing music as well. Yeah. You know, two year long album writing is just not good. It doesn’t work. So I was, you know, and I’d had enough of England. I really had I just knew every day where I was going to go, who was going to see what I was going to say, where I was going to eat.

You know, I’m a firm believer in, you know, is if if you don’t wake up every day and you don’t get a kind of wow.

You know, you look you look at something, you just you got to have a wow every day and at least two, three times, you’ve got to be shocked. You’ve got to really have a wall.

You know, if you tell and England for me, we’re starting to get like that, just just get away straightaway. Just move. It’s not it’s not your place. And it’s took me all my all my life to find my place and where I feel at home. And that is Gran Canaria. It’s it’s it’s it’s the people that make anywhere.

And they’re just brilliant. They we have manners here. If you go across the street anywhere in my town, all the cars will stop for you anyway.

Well, we still have MAPP. It’s, you know, that’s different. So, yeah. So I was looking for to get out of England because it really just didn’t like it. I needed that change. So I went to a trade show to do some soul searching for some component just to see, you know, bar handles or just what was in China. There wasn’t really very, very much back in the early 2000s. And I went to a trade show in Shanghai for fourteen days and I ended up staying for 14 years.

So it was quite a yeah, it is quite aware of one because I went back and seen some factories and they just just just get on with it.

Everyone just get some of it. And if you just want something done quickly, you just just chuck a few more people in it and everyone’s so eager to learn where they were then they’re not so much know they just ever want to learn and you just chuck people in and you could get stuff done. So I was really impressed and I was just, you know, going back and forth to England more and more like the first year and then to Faizan in late 2002, I think I thought, well, I’m kind of in China more than I’m in England, so I’m just going to stay here.

I’m just going to just live here. So I rented an apartment and just outside Gangel in quite a rural area, actually, and I thought stuff MAPP. So I’m going to build Nandy lab. So I did. I rented a place, built some soundproof rooms and got some nice kind of kit in there and, you know, things like that for testing.

And I had some offices and I got got a couple of guys and made a small area where we could do kind of mock ups of based Benzino prototypes. So would work. And we had fibreglass with a guy who could do molds and would knock us up some fibreglass. So, you know, I did so much from 2004 till 2010. I designed, well, everything for void and that was over thirty five series and probably six or seven products within each series.

So I don’t think ever been done in history. That’s I could literally have something I. The door three days you could work, that sounds like you were focused and you had this whole team who were really focused with you as well. Yeah, that’s how life works.

Yeah. You just get a team of everyone around you that you need and you just, you know, you get everyone really on one. They’ve got to be up for it, though. And the people were never really wanting to learn. And I just did so much so quick. And yeah, it wasn’t the easiest country to live in.

It wasn’t, you know, it was.

And then I couldn’t wait to get out and really. Really. OK. But yeah, it was cool in terms of getting work done.

It was the best. But then in terms of living, you’re like, OK, it’s time for another another thing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, things happen with the presidency change as well. And the whole place really changed as well. And so it became quite difficult for a foreigner actually to be there. And so that was hence the move. And I think twenty fourteen or twenty fifteen when I moved back. So ripe the motorbike and Tibet thing. So I would say after about two or three years have been in China, I would spend the winters just a second job and village because it was it was quite warm.

You know, you could have twenty six, twenty seven degrees on Christmas Day and New Year’s Eve and things like this. I don’t know what that is in real Fahrenheit, but.

Yeah, yeah. So what happened was I would spend the, I would spend the, the cold winters in gungho and the summers, I would go to Tibet and I didn’t have the full R&D lab. I was in Gangel, but I did have like a kind of apartment and a little kind of almost like a design studio where I could go in and do a bit of cad and kind of just come up with concepts and come up with ideas to take back to the lab.

So I used to spend quite a lot of time on the China Tibet border. And yeah, I had bikes in both locations. I had what the motorcycles was the most I had at one point.

Well, and yeah, they were just kind of roads with no one on them and some of them were kind of private and toll roads in that.

And it was just, you know, there’s still not many people on the roads, you know, in central western China, you know, a car is still quite a luxury item.

So, yeah, I had this expec Kawasaki’s at 10. Ah. And good for about one hundred and ninety five horsepower I think. And it didn’t have any restriction because Japanese bikes have a and restriction which is about one hundred and eighty six miles an hour. They’ve got like a gentlemen’s agreement that goes over that even though they didn’t have that. So I, I’m not sure it was 200. I read just over two hundred on the speed of two, three times on the high speed runs.

But I think the GPS was reading about one hundred and ninety seven. I was doing so. Yeah, it’s enough. Yeah. It’s quite a strange experience.

You know, there are a few kind of cars about it’s quite strange because it’s, it’s like you’re in a car park just kind of slowly maneuvering around vehicles.

It’s really that park is quite strange. Yeah. Actually feels quite safe.

There’s no kind of buffeting or wind noise because you’re right behind the fairing and you really feel quite confident and safe.

It doesn’t you think, oh my God, Chindamo now. But now it’s all right.

Yeah, it’s amazing. Yeah. Yeah. So that was the Tibetan and the China thing. So big part of my life, you know, a massive part of my life. I spent almost half my life in Asia. Then I moved to Malaysia after China and I was always going to move the R&D lab there, but I only really lasted four or five years.

And that are not the easiest person, not the easiest place to to live in really, or after the rose tinted glasses come off and you see what it’s really about. So, yeah, I was I was looking for somewhere else and and someone suggested, well, how about Cyprus or Greece? Because I just can’t do anywhere cold. It’s just, you know, the least temperature I’ve seen here. And just a just under two years of being here is 19 degrees in the winter, which is sixty six degrees Fahrenheit.

Yeah, that’s the coldest. Sixty six is the coldest it can ever get here. So and I think the most the world’s third most stable climate. So it never goes over like twenty seven or twenty now.

So and just for people who were wondering about your earlier comment. Twenty seven is eighty degrees Fahrenheit.

Yeah. Yeah.

So it’s sixty six to eighty all the rain every seven or eight months and only for fifteen minutes. So you know that kind of you know, suits me fine that, that, that kind of living. It’s good.

But what I’ve actually done by being here is I found where I fit in and I think the most important thing in life is to find where you fit in. It might not be the place where you look like you come from or even sound like, but it’s just where you fit in and and every. It comes together. Since I’m here, everyone has come together on more creative. I write more music, I design more speakers, it’s just got easier.

It’s just where I should be. And it took me my whole life to find that. But, yeah, it’s important to fit in, I think.

Right. I’m guessing you don’t listen to any podcasts. I don’t I’m not going to ask you. I’m not a TV watcher. You know, it’s it’s not called a program for nothing. It really isn’t.

So I don’t watch much TV. I yeah. I just just try and learn the things. I listen to a lot of music, you know, I haven’t a really, really good hyphy with electrostatic and valve amps is really important because it’s a reference. And the stuff I do in the studio, it’s it’s it should almost be a law that you can’t or shouldn’t work in this industry at any level unless really you can play music in musical instruments and have some theory and music, because you really should understand.

Yeah, I know a lot of people don’t and they do a good job. I understand. But I can always tell the engineer that has a musical background that they’re you know, it’s it’s a weird one. When I mix a band life, all I’m I mix for the crowd. I don’t mix for me. And that happens in nightclubs. You know as well people who set up nightclubs, a lot of them get it right, you know, and a lot of the people that work, you know, avoid systems as well.

Luckily to say, get this right. And they actually tune the system for the audience and for the space and for the time to be had. A lot of people just go and do it for them, what they think is right and it’s not enough.

Who are you to say what what’s right?

It’s so when I used to mix bands, I used to get a lot of work because I used to I used to go to, you know, people that run, you know, the venues and and the tunnels, the tour managers and promoters.

And I would say, look, you know, I will get especially is like a funk band or something like that. I remember doing Asimov quite a few times and Gil Scott Heron and people like that. And it was just just brilliant, brilliant shows. And I would say if I can’t get everyone dancing on the dance floor and including in the toilets and you can check and I’ll never mix again, I will never mix again.

And luckily I’m still good. But I mix. I mix for the audience. I mix for the time, for the feeling.

That’s what I why I do it and well I mix for I’m really not I’m not worried if the high hats are enough. Fourteen K in the scheme of things it’s really not important. It’s the whole vibe. It’s just bringing that audience up. It just gets better and you know, you just connect with it and you just yeah. That’s what you mix for and you do it more from your heart and from your ears. So yeah. So I’m, I like to see people that do that.

And that’s normally people with more of a musical background.

Yeah. Whereas where is the best place for people to follow your work. OK, yeah that’s me.

So I guess they’re going to call you up.

Yeah. No, if it’s my personal life then yeah.

You can check out Roger, Google, Facebook and most of the the posts are public actually. So you can if not on Facebook, you can kind of see what I’m about. But that’s just that’s kind of more the studio stuff I get into. I don’t really post design and stuff and I don’t really post anything about upcoming designs because I really don’t want anyone to know. We don’t want it to upset, you know, sells a few current products.

So we keep things back.

And also the Void Acoustics Facebook page as well on the Instagram page has, if you want, keep up on void and you know, where will the new installs are happening?

And you know what where we’re at. And what we’re doing obviously is a bit quiet on the festival season. But I have to say, there’s a few installs going about this. There’s some still going on. And as a company, we’re kind of doing all right. It’s it’s OK. Obviously, it’s it’s done, but it’s it’s OK.

So, yeah, because, yeah, I’ve seen the companies that have a installer contracting division have continued on because those projects started years ago.

Yeah. Yeah. It is also just being able to adapt as well. So we’re doing we’re seeing you know, obviously we do smaller stuff for kind of bars and lounges that actually kind of work in living rooms.

So we’re starting to do kind of quite a few high end lives, but they just won’t kind of club party systems because they can’t go home. They want to party at home. So that makes a lot of sense.

So you just gotta think, you know. Yeah, it’s just yeah, it’s there’s an opportunity out there and everything that’s kind of bad if, you know, to work and you and you can see it and you know and.

You can use it. So this has not been so bad for us. I mean, yeah, I do feel for the people that are, you know, the tech crews that are all laid up in the system, sitting in warehouses, you know, because there’s no festivals. That’s that’s obviously not good. But and obviously, the nightclub industry is going to be quite decimated. This is going to be the last thing they want is lots of sweaty people in a dark room.

So we’re going to have a while to go. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, Rog Mogale, thank you so much for joining me on Sound Design Live.